Substation death not workplace-related

By CBC.ca


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The death of a man at an electrical substation in eastern Prince Edward Island was not a workplace accident, says Maritime Electric.

An investigation is underway into the sudden death of a man working at a Maritime Electric substation in Montague. Spokeswoman Kim Griffin told CBC News the subcontractor was working at the Victoria Cross substation.

"The death was not associated with electrical work," said Griffin.

"From what we understand it was a health-related issue and the man was not electrocuted."

Griffin said the man was working on one of the buildings on the substation property, not with electrical equipment.

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Why electric buses haven't taken over the world—yet

Electric Buses reduce urban emissions and noise, but require charging infrastructure, grid upgrades, and depot redesigns; they offer lower operating costs and simpler maintenance, with range limits influencing routes, schedules, and on-route fast charging.

 

Key Points

Battery-electric buses cut emissions and noise while lowering operating and maintenance costs for transit agencies.

✅ Lower emissions, noise; improved rider experience

✅ Requires charging, grid upgrades, depot redesigns

✅ Range limits affect routes; on-route fast charging helps

 

In lots of ways, the electric bus feels like a technology whose time has come. Transportation is responsible for about a quarter of global emissions, and those emissions are growing faster than in any other sector. While buses are just a small slice of the worldwide vehicle fleet, they have an outsize effect on the environment. That’s partly because they’re so dirty—one Bogotá bus fleet made up just 5 percent of the city’s total vehicles, but a quarter of its CO2, 40 percent of nitrogen oxide, and more than half of all its particulate matter vehicle emissions. And because buses operate exactly where the people are concentrated, we feel the effects that much more acutely.

Enter the electric bus. Depending on the “cleanliness” of the electric grid into which they’re plugged, e-buses are much better for the environment. They’re also just straight up nicer to be around: less vibration, less noise, zero exhaust. Plus, in the long term, e-buses have lower operating costs, and related efforts like US school bus electrification are gathering pace too.

So it makes sense that global e-bus sales increased by 32 percent last year, according to a report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, as the age of electric cars accelerates across markets worldwide. “You look across the electrification of cars, trucks—it’s buses that are leading this revolution,” says David Warren, the director of sustainable transportation at bus manufacturer New Flyer.

Today, about 17 percent of the world’s buses are electric—425,000 in total. But 99 percent of them are in China, where a national mandate promotes all sorts of electric vehicles. In North America, a few cities have bought a few electric buses, or at least run limited pilots, to test the concept out, and early deployments like Edmonton's first e-bus offer useful lessons as systems ramp up. California has even mandated that by 2029 all buses purchased by its mass transit agencies be zero-emission.

But given all the benefits of e-buses, why aren’t there more? And why aren’t they everywhere?

“We want to be responsive, we want to be innovative, we want to pilot new technologies and we’re committed to doing so as an agency,” says Becky Collins, the manager of corporate initiative at the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, which is currently on its second e-bus pilot program. “But if the diesel bus was a first-generation car phone, we’re verging on smartphone territory right now. It’s not as simple as just flipping a switch.”

One reason is trepidation about the actual electric vehicle. Some of the major bus manufacturers are still getting over their skis, production-wise. During early tests in places like Belo Horizonte, Brazil, e-buses had trouble getting over steep hills with full passenger loads. Albuquerque, New Mexico, canceled a 15-bus deal with the Chinese manufacturer BYD after finding equipment problems during testing. (The city also sued). Today’s buses get around 225 miles per charge, depending on topography and weather conditions, which means they have to re-up about once a day on a shorter route in a dense city. That’s an issue in a lot of places.

If you want to buy an electric bus, you need to buy into an entire electric bus system. The vehicle is just the start.

The number one thing people seem to forget about electric buses is that they need to get charged, and emerging projects such as a bus depot charging hub illustrate how infrastructure can scale. “We talk to many different organizations that get so fixated on the vehicles,” says Camron Gorguinpour, the global senior manager for the electric vehicles at the World Resources Institute, a research organization, which last month released twin reports on electric bus adoption. “The actual charging stations get lost in the mix.”

But charging stations are expensive—about $50,000 for your standard depot-based one. On-route charging stations, an appealing option for longer bus routes, can be two or three times that. And that’s not even counting construction costs. Or the cost of new land: In densely packed urban centers, movements inside bus depots can be tightly orchestrated to accommodate parking and fueling. New electric bus infrastructure means rethinking limited space, and operators can look to Toronto's TTC e-bus fleet for practical lessons on depot design. And it’s a particular pain when agencies are transitioning between diesel and electric buses. “The big issue is just maintaining two sets of fueling infrastructure,” says Hanjiro Ambrose, a doctoral student at UC Davis who studies transportation technology and policy.

“We talk to many different organizations that get so fixated on the vehicles. The actual charging stations get lost in the mix as the American EV boom gathers pace across sectors.”

Then agencies also have to get the actual electricity to their charging stations. This involves lengthy conversations with utilities about grid upgrades, rethinking how systems are wired, occasionally building new substations, and, sometimes, cutting deals on electric output, since electric truck fleets will also strain power systems in parallel. Because an entirely electrified bus fleet? It’s a lot to charge. Warren, the New Flyer executive, estimates it could take 150 megawatt-hours of electricity to keep a 300-bus depot charged up throughout the day. Your typical American household, by contrast, consumes 7 percent of that—per year. “That’s a lot of work by the utility company,” says Warren.

For cities outside of China—many of them still testing out electric buses and figuring out how they fit into their larger fleets—learning about what it takes to run one is part of the process. This, of course, takes money. It also takes time. Optimists say e-buses are more of a question of when than if. Bloomberg New Energy Finance projects that just under 60 percent of all fleet buses will be electric by 2040, compared to under 40 percent of commercial vans and 30 percent of passenger vehicles.

Which means, of course, that the work has just started. “With new technology, it always feels great when it shows up,” says Ambrose. “You really hope that first mile is beautiful, because the shine will come off. That’s always true.”

 

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Opinion: Cleaning Up Ontario's Hydro Mess - Ford government needs to scrap the Fair Hydro Plan and review all options

Ontario Hydro Crisis highlights soaring electricity rates, costly subsidies, nuclear refurbishments, and stalled renewables in Ontario. Policy missteps, weak planning, and rising natural gas emissions burden ratepayers while energy efficiency and storage remain underused.

 

Key Points

High power costs and subsidies from policy errors, nuclear refurbishments, stalled efficiency and renewables in Ontario.

✅ $5.6B yearly subsidy masks electricity rates and deficits

✅ Nuclear refurbishments embed rising costs for decades

✅ Efficiency, storage, and DERs stalled amid weak planning

 

By Mark Winfield

While the troubled Site C and Muskrat Falls hydroelectric dam projects in B.C. and Newfoundland and Labrador have drawn a great deal of national attention over the past few months, Ontario has quietly been having a hydro crisis of its own.

One of the central promises in the 2018 platform of the Ontario Progressive Conservative party was to “clean up the hydro mess,” and then-PC leader Doug Ford vowed to fire Hydro One's leadership as part of that effort. There certainly is a mess, with the costs of subsidies taken from general provincial revenues to artificially lower hydro rates nearing $7 billion annually. That is a level approaching the province’s total pre-COVID-19 annual deficit. After only two years, that will also exceed total expected cost overruns of the Site C and Muskrat Falls projects, currently estimated at $12 billion ($6 billion each).

There is no doubt that Doug Ford’s government inherited a significant mess around the province’s electricity system from the previous Liberal governments of former premiers Dalton McGuinty and Kathleen Wynne. But the Ford government has also demonstrated a remarkable capacity for undoing the things its predecessors had managed to get right while doubling down on their mistakes.

The Liberals did have some significant achievements. Most notably: coal-fired electricity generation, which constituted 25 per cent of the province’s electricity supply in the early 2000s, was phased out in 2014. The phaseout dramatically improved air quality in the province. There was also a significant growth in renewable energy production. From  virtually zero in 2003, the province installed 4,500 MW of wind-powered generation, and 450 MW of solar photovoltaic by 2018, a total capacity more than double that of the Sir Adam Beck Generating Stations at Niagara Falls.

At the same time, public concerns over rising hydro rates flowing from a major reconstruction of the province’s electricity system from 2003 onwards became a central political issue in the province. But rather than reconsider the role of the key drivers of the continuing rate increases – namely the massively expensive and risky refurbishments of the Darlington and Bruce nuclear facilities, the Liberals adopted a financially ruinous Fair Hydro Plan. The central feature of the 2017 plan was a short-term 25 per cent reduction in hydro rates, financed by removing the provincial portion of the HST from hydro bills, and by extending the amortization period for capital projects within the system. The total cost of the plan in terms of lost revenues and financing costs has been estimated in excess of $40 billion over 29 years, with the burden largely falling on future ratepayers and taxpayers.


Decision-making around the electricity system became deeply politicized, and a secret cabinet forecast of soaring prices intensified public debate across Ontario. Legislation adopted by the Wynne government in 2016 eliminated the requirement for the development of system plans to be subject to any form of meaningful regulatory oversight or review. Instead, the system was guided through directives from the provincial cabinet. Major investments like the Darlington and Bruce refurbishments proceeded without meaningful, public, external reviews of their feasibility, costs or alternatives.

The Ford government proceeded to add more layers to these troubles. The province’s relatively comprehensive framework for energy efficiency was effectively dismantled in March, 2019, with little meaningful replacement. That was despite strong evidence that energy efficiency offered the most cost-effective strategy for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and electricity costs.

The Ford government basically retained the Fair Hydro Plan and promised further rate reductions, later tabling legislation to lower electricity rates as well. To its credit, the government did take steps to clarify real costs of the plan. Last year, these were revealed to amount to a de facto $5.6 billion-per-year subsidy coming from general revenues, and rising. That constituted the major portion of the province’s $7.4 billion pre-COVID-19 deficit. The financial hole was deepened further through November’s financial statement, with the addition of a further $1.3 billion subsidy to commercial and industrial consumers. The numbers can only get worse as the costs of the Darlington and Bruce refurbishments become embedded more fully into electricity rates.

The government also quietly dispensed with the last public vestige of an energy planning framework, relieving itself of the requirement to produce a Long-Term Energy Plan every three years. The next plan would normally have been due next month, in February.

Even the gains from the 2014 phaseout of coal-fired electricity are at risk. Major increases are projected in emissions of greenhouse gases, smog-causing nitrogen oxides and particulate matter from natural gas-fired power plants as the plants are run to cover electricity needs during the Bruce and Darlington refurbishments over the next decade. These developments could erode as much as 40 per cent of the improvements in air quality and greenhouse gas emission gained through the coal phaseout.

The province’s activities around renewable energy, energy storage and distributed energy resources are at a standstill, with exception of a few experimental “sandbox” projects, while other jurisdictions face profound electricity-sector change and adapt. Globally, these technologies are seen as the leading edge of energy-system development and decarbonization. Ontario seems to have chosen to make itself an energy innovation wasteland instead.

The overall result is a system with little or no space for innovation that is embedding ever-higher costs while trying to disguise those costs at enormous expense to the provincial treasury and still failing to provide effective relief to low-income electricity consumers.

The decline in electricity demand associated with the COVID-19 pandemic, along with the introduction of a temporary recovery rate for electricity, gives the province an opportunity to step back and consider its next steps with the electricity system. A phaseout of the Fair Hydro Plan electricity-rate reduction and its replacement with a more cost-effective strategy of targeted relief aimed at those most heavily burdened by rising hydro rates, particularly rural and low-income consumers, as reconnection efforts for nonpayment have underscored the hardship faced by many households, would be a good place to start.

Next, the province needs to conduct a comprehensive, public review of electricity options available to it, including additional renewables – the costs of which have fallen dramatically over the past decade – distributed energy resources, hydro imports from Quebec and energy efficiency before proceeding with further nuclear refurbishments.

In the longer term, a transparent, evidence-based process for electricity system planning needs to be established – one that is subject to substantive public and regulatory oversight and review. Finally, the province needs to establish a new organization to be called Energy Efficiency Ontario to revive its efforts around energy efficiency, developing a comprehensive energy-efficiency strategy for the province, covering electricity and natural gas use, and addressing the needs of marginalized communities.

Without these kinds of steps, the province seems destined to continue to lurch from contradictory decision after contradictory decision as the economic and environmental costs of the system’s existing trajectory continue to rise.

Mark Winfield is a professor of environmental studies at York University and co-chair of the university’s Sustainable Energy Initiative.

 

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Atlantica - Regulatory Reform To Bring Greener Power To Atlantic Canada

Atlantic Canada Energy Regulatory Reform accelerates smart grids, renewables, hydrogen, and small modular reactors to meet climate targets, enabling interprovincial transmission, EV charging, and decarbonization toward a net-zero grid by 2035 with agile, collaborative policies.

 

Key Points

A policy shift enabling smart grids, clean energy, and transmission upgrades to decarbonize Atlantic Canada by 2035.

✅ Agile rules for smart grids, EV load, and peak demand balancing

✅ Interprovincial transmission: Maritime Link, NB-PEI, Atlantic Loop

✅ Supports hydrogen, SMRs, and renewables to cut GHG emissions

 

Atlantica Centre for Energy Senior Policy Consultant Neil Jacobsen says the future of Atlantic Canada’s electricity grid depends on agile regulations, supported by targeted research such as the $2M Atlantic grid study, that match the pace at which renewable technologies are being developed in the race to meet Canada’s climate goals.

In an interview, Jacobsen stressed the need for a more modernized energy regulatory framework, so the Atlantic Provinces can collaborate to quickly develop and adopt cleaner energy.

To this end, Atlantica released a paper that makes the case for responsive smart grid technology, the adaptation of alternative forms of clean energy, the adaptation of hydrogen as an energy source, petroleum price regulation in Atlantic Canada and small modular reactors.

Jacobsen said regulations need to match Canada’s urgency around reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 40 to 45 percent by 2030, achieving a net-neutral national power grid by 2035 and ultimately a net-zero grid by 2050 in Canada – and the goal that 50 percent of Canadian vehicle sales being electric by 2030.

“It’s an evolution of policy and regulations to adapt to a very aggressive timeline of aggressive climate change and decarbonization targets,” said Jacobsen.

“These are transformational energy and environmental commitments, so the path forward really requires the ability to introduce and adapt and move forward with new clean renewable energy technologies.”

Jacobsen said Atlantica’s recommendations are not a criticism of existing regulations– but an acknowledgment that they need to evolve.

He noted newer, clearer regulations will make way for new energy sources – particularly a region that has the countries highest rates of dependency on fossil fuels and growing climate risks, with Atlantic grids under threat from more intense storms.

“We have a long way to go, but at the same time, we have a lot to celebrate. Atlantic Canada is leading the country in reducing greenhouse gas emissions,” said Jacobsen.

“There are new ways of producing energy that requires us to be able to be much more responsive and this is an opportunity to create a higher level of alignment here, in Atlantic Canada.”

Jacobsen said Atlantica is looking to aid interprovincial cooperation in providing power, echoing calls for a western Canadian grid elsewhere, through projects like the 500-megawatt, 170-kilometre Maritime Link that transports power from the Muskrat Falls hydroelectric dam in Labrador, through Newfoundland and across the Cabot Strait, to Nova Scotia – or NB Power’s export of electricity to P.E.I., via sub-sea cables crossing the Northumberland Strait.

He noted streamlined regulations may allow for more potential wider-scale partnerships, like the proposed Atlantic Loop project, aligning with macrogrid investments that would involve upgrading transmission capacity on the East Coast to allow hydroelectric power from Labrador and Quebec to displace coal use in the region.

Atlantic Canada has led the way with adaption new renewable technologies, noted Jacobsen, referring to nuclear startups Moltex Energy and ARC Nuclear Canada’s efforts to develop small modular nuclear reactor technology in New Brunswick, as well as the potential of adopting hydrogen fuel technology and Nova Scotia’s strides in developing offshore renewable energy.

“I don’t think we have any choice other than to be forceful and aggressive in driving forward a renewable energy agenda.”

Jacobsen said cooperation between the Atlantic provinces is crucial because of how challenging it is to meet energy demand with heavy seasonal and daily variations in energy demand in the region – something smart grid technology could address.

Smart Grid Atlantic is a four-year research and demonstration program testing technologies that provide cleaner local power, support a smarter electricity infrastructure across the region, more renewable power, more information and control over power use and more reliable electricity.

“It can be challenging for utilities to meet those cyclical demands, especially as grids are increasingly exposed to harsh weather across Canada. Smart girds add knowledge of the flow of electrons in a way that can help even out those electricity demands – and quite frankly, those demands will only increase when you look at the electrification of the transportation sector,” he said.

Jacobsen said Atlantica’s paper and call for modernized regulations are only the beginning of a conversation.

 

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Tube Strikes Disrupt London Economy

London Tube Strikes Economic Impact highlights transport disruption reducing foot traffic, commuter flows, and tourism, squeezing small businesses, hospitality revenue, and citywide growth while business leaders urge negotiations, resolution, and policy responses to stabilize operations.

 

Key Points

Reduced transport options cut foot traffic and sales, straining small businesses and slowing London-wide growth.

✅ Hospitality venues report lower revenue and temporary closures

✅ Commuter and tourism declines reduce daily sales and bookings

✅ Business groups urge swift negotiations to restore services

 

London's economy is facing significant challenges due to ongoing tube strikes, challenges that are compounded by scrutiny of UK energy network profits and broader cost pressures across sectors, with businesses across the city experiencing disruptions that are impacting their operations and bottom lines.

Impact on Small Businesses

Small businesses, particularly those in the hospitality sector, are bearing the brunt of the disruptions caused by the strikes. Many establishments rely on the steady flow of commuters and tourists that the tube system facilitates, while also hoping for measures like temporary electricity bill relief that can ease operating costs during downturns. With reduced transportation options, foot traffic has dwindled, leading to decreased sales and, in some cases, temporary closures.

Economic Consequences

The strikes are not only affecting individual businesses but are also having a ripple effect on the broader economy, a dynamic seen when commercial electricity consumption plummeted in B.C. during the pandemic. The reduced activity in key sectors is contributing to a slowdown in economic growth, echoing periods when BC Hydro demand fell 10% and prompting policy responses such as Ontario electricity rate reductions for businesses, with potential long-term consequences if the disruptions continue.

Calls for Resolution

Business leaders and industry groups are urging for a swift resolution to the strikes. They emphasize the need for dialogue between the involved parties to reach an agreement that minimizes further economic damage and restores normalcy to the city's transportation system.

The ongoing tube strikes in London are causing significant disruptions to the city's economy, particularly affecting small businesses that depend on the efficient movement of people. Immediate action is needed to address the issues, drawing on tools like a subsidized hydro plan used elsewhere to spur recovery, to prevent further economic downturn.

 

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If B.C. wants to electrify all road vehicles by 2055, it will need to at least double its power output: study

B.C. EV Electrification 2055 projects grid capacity needs doubling to 37 GW, driven by electric vehicles, renewable energy expansion, wind and solar generation, limited natural gas, and policy mandates for zero-emission transportation.

 

Key Points

A projection that electrifying all B.C. road transport by 2055 would more than double grid demand to 37 GW.

✅ Site C adds 1.1 GW; rest from wind, solar, limited natural gas.

✅ Electricity price per kWh rises 9%, but fuel savings offset.

✅ Significant GHG cuts with 93% renewable grid under Clean Energy Act.

 

Researchers at the University of Victoria say that if B.C. were to shift to electric power for all road vehicles by 2055, the province would require more than double the electricity now being generated.

The findings are included in a study to be published in the November issue of the Applied Energy journal.

According to co-author and UVic professor Curran Crawford, the team at the university's Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions took B.C.'s 2015 electrical capacity of 15.6 gigawatts as a baseline, and added projected demands from population and economic growth, then added the increase that shifting to electric vehicles would require, while acknowledging power supply challenges that could arise.

They calculated the demand in 2055 would amount to 37 gigawatts, more than double 15.6 gigawatts used in 2015 as a baseline, and utilities warn of a potential EV charging bottleneck if demand ramps up faster than infrastructure.

"We wanted to understand what the electricity requirements are if you want to do that," he said. "It's possible — it would take some policy direction."

B.C. announces $4M in rebates for home and work EV charging stations across the province
The team took the planned Site C dam project into account, but that would only add 1.1 gigawatts of power. So assuming no other hydroelectric dams are planned, the remainder would likely have to come from wind and solar projects and some natural gas.

"Geothermal and biomass were also in the model," said Crawford, adding that they are more expensive electricity sources. "The model we were using, essentially, we're looking for the cheapest options."
Wind turbines on the Tantramar Marsh between Nova Scotia and New Brunswick tower over the Trans-Canada Highway. If British Columbia were to shift to 100 per cent electric-powered ground transportation by 2055, the province would have to significantly increase its wind and solar power generation. (Eric Woolliscroft/CBC)
The electricity bill, per kilowatt hour, would increase by nine per cent, according to the team's research, but Crawford said getting rid of the gasoline and diesel now used to fuel vehicles could amount to an overall cost saving, especially when combined with zero-emission vehicle incentives available to consumers.

The province introduced a law this year requiring that all new light-duty vehicles sold in B.C. be zero emission by 2040, while the federal 2035 EV mandate adds another policy signal, so the researchers figured 2055 was a reasonable date to imagine all vehicles on the road to be electric.

Crawford said hydrogen-powered vehicles weren't considered in the study, as the model used was already complicated enough, but hydrogen fuel would actually require more electricity for the electrolysis, when compared to energy stored in batteries.

Electric vehicles are approaching a tipping point as faster charging becomes more available — here's why
The study also found that shifting to all-electric ground transportation in B.C. would also mean a significant decrease in greenhouse gas emissions, assuming the Clean Energy Act remains in place, which mandates that 93 per cent of grid electricity must come from renewable resources, whereas nationally, about 18 per cent of electricity still comes from fossil fuels, according to 2019 data. 

"Doing the electrification makes some sense — If you're thinking of spending some money to reduce carbon emissions, this is a pretty cost effective way of doing that," said Crawford.

 

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Sudbury, Ont., eco groups say sustainability is key to grid's future

Sudbury Electrification and Grid Expansion is driving record power demand, EV charging, renewable energy planning, IESO forecasts, smart grid upgrades, battery storage, and industrial electrification, requiring cleaner power plants and transmission capacity in northern Ontario.

 

Key Points

Rising electricity demand and clean energy upgrades in Sudbury to power EVs, industry, and a smarter, expanded grid.

✅ IESO projects system size may need to more than double

✅ EVs and smart devices increase peak and off-peak load

✅ Battery storage and V2G can support reliability and resiliency

 

Sudbury, Ont., is consuming more power than ever, amid an electricity supply crunch in Ontario, according to green energy organizations that say meeting the demand will require cleaner energy sources.

"This is the welfare of the entire city on the line and they are putting their trust in electrification," said David St. Georges, manager of communications at reThink Green, a non-profit organization focused on sustainability in Sudbury.

According to St. Georges, Sudbury and northern Ontario can meet the growing demand for electricity to charge clean power for EVs and smart devices. 

According to the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO), making a full switch from fossil fuels to other renewable energy sources could require more power plants, while other provinces face electricity shortages of their own.

"We have forecasted that Ontario's electricity system will need significant expansion to meet this, potentially more than doubling in size," the IESO told CBC News in an emailed statement.

Electrification in the industrial sector is adding greater demand to the electrical grid as electric cars challenge power grids in many regions. Algoma Steel in Sault Ste. Marie and ArcelorMittal Dofasco in Hamilton both aim to get electric arc furnaces in operation. Together, those projects will require 630 megawatts.

"That's like adding four cities the size of Sudbury to the grid," IESO said.

Devin Arthur, chapter president of the Electric Vehicle society in Greater Sudbury, said the city is coming full circle with fully electrifying its power grid, reflecting how EVs are a hot topic in Alberta and beyond.

"We're going to need more power," he said.

"Once natural gas was introduced, that kind of switched back, and everyone was getting out of electrification and going into natural gas and other sources of power."

Despite Sudbury's increased appetite for electricity, Arthur added it's also easier to store now as Ontario moves to rely on battery storage solutions.

"What that means is you can actually use your electric vehicle as a battery storage device for the grid, so you can actually sell power from your vehicle that you've stored back to the grid, if they need that power," he said.

Harneet Panesar, chief operating officer for the Ontario Energy Board, told CBC the biggest challenge to going green is seeing if it can work around older infrastructure, while policy debates such as Canada's 2035 EV sales mandate shape the pace of change.

"You want to make sure that you're building in the right spot," he said.

"Consumers are shifting from combustion engines to EV drivetrains. You're also creating more dependency. At a very high level, I'm going to say it's probably going to go up in terms of the demand for electricity."

Fossil fuels are the first to go for generating electricity, said St. Georges.

"But we're not there yet, because it's not a light switch solution. It takes time to get to that, which is another issue of electrification," he said.

"It's almost impossible for us not to go that direction."

 

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