Fears fade on hybrid batteries

By New York Times


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While his day job as a flight instructor typically has him thousands of feet above the ground, George FinlayÂ’s everyday transportation is decidedly more down to earth: a 2002 Toyota Prius.

The car now has more than 130,000 miles.

“I wanted to make a statement about reducing our dependence on dinosaur gunk,” Mr. Finlay, 66, said.

That commitment led him to become an early adopter of hybrid vehicles. It also gave Mr. Finlay, of South Orange, N.J., the opportunity to face what many skeptics predicted would be the AchillesÂ’ heel of battery-electric cars: replacement of the high-voltage battery pack that powers the car at low speeds.

Hybrid critics have long said that the cost of a new battery, if it failed after the carÂ’s warranty expired, would quickly wipe out an ownerÂ’s years of savings on gasoline. The argument was not unreasonable, given the high (and at first, uncertain) cost of the battery packs, which had yet to prove their durability in real-world driving.

That situation has changed since hybrids went on sale in the United States a decade ago. Both Honda and Toyota, the market leaders, now have considerable hybrid experience. And both have recently reduced the prices of replacement nickel-metal-hydride battery packs — a move made possible by maturing technology and growing sales volumes, they say. Even so, new replacement batteries still cost more than $2,000.

While owners and automakers say that hybrid batteries are proving generally reliable, the packs can reach a point where they will no longer hold a charge. For Mr. Finlay’s Prius, trouble arrived at 80,000 miles with a glowing “check engine” light on the dashboard.

“My mechanic told me he had good and bad news,” he said. “The bad news was that I needed both a radiator and a replacement battery. The good news was that the battery pack was under warranty.” The car was repaired by a Toyota dealer in two days and the battery cost Mr. Finlay nothing.

Toyota has sold more than 960,000 hybrid vehicles in the United States since introducing the Prius in 2000, including some 670,000 Priuses. A Toyota spokesman, John Hanson, said that the company has replaced approximately 350 battery packs on the second-generation Priuses, which were introduced as 2004 models. Nine out of 10, he said, were covered under warranty (10 years or 150,000 miles in some states, eight years or 100,000 miles in others) or insurance settlements from accidents.

Honda has sold more than 220,000 hybrid cars in the United States. Earlier this year, the company issued service bulletins regarding premature battery module failures and extensions of the battery warranty; Honda was concerned that in seven warm-weather states some 2000-4 Insight batteries were being overcharged and overheated during regenerative braking.

Honda would not disclose how many batteries it has replaced; a spokesman, Chris Naughton, said that “replacement rates for parts are proprietary.”

Fuel economy and environmental concerns are not the only incentives that motivate hybrid buyers. Chad Melin, 36, a mortgage banker who lives in Chandler, Ariz., bought his 2002 Honda Insight in part so he could drive solo in freeway carpool lanes. Last year, the battery, still working properly, was replaced under warranty at 45,000 miles.

“It cost me nothing and I picked the car up the same day,” Mr. Melin said. But he has since sold the car. Among his reasons: “I wouldn’t want to own a hybrid with a battery that wasn’t under warranty.”

In some cases, drivers have been alerted to battery problems when a condition that Insight owners call a “recal” begins occurring more frequently. The recal — actually a normal function of the car’s electronics, according to Honda — resets the hybrid electronics to more accurately account for the battery’s charge level. When a recal occurs, no electric motor assist is available and the car is powered by its gas engine alone.

James Frye, a computer programmer from Pleasant Valley, Nev., said that recals started occurring in his car, which he had purchased with a salvage title, at 110,000 miles. He replaced the battery himself, installing a $250 pack he purchased used from an Internet parts supplier. He also bought a Manual Integrated Motor Assist kit sold by www.99mpg.com of North Grosvenordale, Conn.

The company’s owner, Mike Dabrowski, said that the assist kit was designed to solve the recal problem by giving the owner greater control over the battery charging process. With the kit, “I can charge as much as I want or discharge as much as I want,” Mr. Dabrowski said.

Honda has reservations about Mr. Dabrowski’s device. “First and foremost, any modifications that change the assist or recharge characteristics of the powertrain could likely stress components, the battery for example, in a way that is well beyond their intended operating parameters,” said Mr. Naughton of Honda.

Ford has sold more than 81,000 Escape and Mercury Mariner Hybrids since their introduction. According to a Ford spokeswoman, Jennifer Moore, the company has experienced no significant issues with batteries and has replaced only “a very small number,” under warranty. (Ford declined to give an exact number of battery replacements.)

General Motors has big plans for adding battery power to its cars, but at this point it is a newcomer to the hybrid market. A spokesman, Brian Corbett, concedes that GMÂ’s hybrids have not been trouble-free: some 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line owners experienced a voltage drop, and the company began a voluntary recall to replace 9,000 battery packs in 2007 Saturn Vue and Aura hybrids. The recall ended last June.

If there are looming battery failures awaiting owners of current hybrids, it would be logical they might show up first in fleets that accumulate many miles each year. That has not been the experience of Shawn Bowden, general manager of Yellow Cab in Vancouver, British Columbia, who said his fleet had pioneered the use of commercial hybrid vehicles in North America. The company now has nearly 100 hybrids.

“The maintenance on a hybrid is incredibly nothing,” Mr. Bowden said. “They cost more to buy, but you get it back in three years with fuel savings and low maintenance.”

Yellow CabÂ’s hybrids operate around the clock and accumulate very high mileage, more than 300,000 miles in many cases. Mr. Bowden estimated that only four or five hybrid battery packs had been replaced on cars in his fleet. The repair can be delayed several days, he said, because dealers do not keep the bulky packs in stock.

Mr. Bowden said Yellow CabÂ’s first Prius, a very high-mileage 2001 model, was acquired from its driver-owner by Toyota and shipped back to Japan so the company could study wear on the battery pack and the car itself.

The price reductions in hybrid battery packs have been significant. In September the price of a battery for a second-generation Prius was reduced to $2,588, and the first-generation to $2,299, both from $2,985. In June, Honda cut the replacement battery price for the Insight (the original two-seat model was discontinued after the 2006 model year) to $2,000, the Civic Hybrid to $2,200 and the Accord Hybrid to $2,400, all from more than $3,000. All prices are for the battery pack only, not including installation.

The replacement cost for the Ford and Mercury hybrid battery is $6,000. A Ford spokesman, Said Deep, said that the company had “taken out costs” each year, and that by the time customers would have to pay for battery replacements they should be cheaper.

Though the warranties are long and battery pack replacement costs are coming down, some consumers are still concerned theyÂ’re going to get stuck with a very expensive dead battery.

That issue affected the resale price of used hybrid cars at one time, a concern that largely evaporated with the most recent spike in gasoline prices. At one point, a three-year-old Honda Civic Hybrid retained 58 percent of its original price, compared with 60 percent for a nonhybrid Civic of the same year, according to John Blair, chief executive of Automotive Lease Guide, a company that sets resale values for the industry.

“But over the last six months, concern about fuel prices means that hybrids are retaining a greater share of their value,” Mr. Blair said.

“I think you’ll find three-year-old hybrids appreciating, not depreciating,” he added. “In the early days of selling hybrids, we as a company had concerns about battery replacement affecting future resale value. What we found was that it just never materialized as an issue.”

The greater unknown lies with the durability of the lithium-ion packs that will be used in many next-generation plug-in hybrids and battery-electric vehicles. Although it has long been used to power cellphones and laptop computers, lithium-ion is still a largely unproved technology at the scale necessary to power automobiles.

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Extensive Disaster Planning at Electric & Gas Utilities Means Lights Will Stay On

Utility Pandemic Preparedness strengthens grid resilience through continuity planning, critical infrastructure protection, DOE-DHS coordination, onsite sequestration, skeleton crews, and deferred maintenance to ensure reliable electric and gas service for commercial and industrial customers.

 

Key Points

Plans that sustain grid operations during outbreaks using staffing limits, access controls, and deferred maintenance.

✅ Deferred maintenance and restricted site access

✅ Onsite sequestering and skeleton crew operations

✅ DOE-DHS coordination and control center staffing

 

Commercial and industrial businesses can rest assured that the current pandemic poses no real threat to our utilities, with the U.S. grid remaining reliable for now, as disaster planning has been key to electric and gas utilities in recent years, writes Forbes. Beginning a decade ago, the utility and energy industries evolved detailed pandemic plans, outlining what to know about the U.S. grid during outbreaks, which include putting off maintenance and routine activities until the worst of the pandemic has passed, restricting site access to essential personnel, and being able to run on a skeleton crew as more and more people become ill, a capability underscored by FPL's massive Irma response when crews faced prolonged outages.

One possible outcome of the current situation is that the US electric industry may require essential staff to live onsite at power plants and control centers, similar to Ontario work-site lockdown plans under consideration, if the outbreak worsens; bedding, food and other supplies are being stockpiled, reflecting local response preparations many utilities practice, Reuters reported. The Great River Energy cooperative, for example, has had a plan to sequester essential staff in place since the H1N1 bird flu crisis in 2009. The cooperative, which runs 10 power plants in Minnesota, says its disaster planning ensured it has enough cots, blankets and other necessities on site to keep staff healthy.

Electricity providers are now taking part in twice-weekly phone calls with officials at the DOE, the Department of Homeland Security, and other agencies, as Ontario demand shifts are monitored, according to the Los Angeles Times. By planning for a variety of worst case scenarios, including weeks-long restorations after major storms, “I have confidence that the sector will be prepared to respond no matter how this evolves,” says Scott Aaronson, VP of security and preparedness for the Edison Electric Institute.

 

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Drought, lack of rain means BC Hydro must adapt power generation

BC Hydro drought operations address climate change impacts with hydropower scheduling, reservoir management, water conservation, inflow forecasting, and fish habitat protection across the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island while maintaining electricity generation from storage facilities.

 

Key Points

BC Hydro drought operations conserve water, protect fish, and sustain hydropower during extended heat and low inflows.

✅ Proactive reservoir releases protect downstream salmon spawning.

✅ Reduced flows at Puntledge, Coquitlam, and Ruskin/Stave facilities.

✅ System relies on northern storage to maintain electricity supply.

 

BC Hydro is adjusting its operating plans around power generation as extended heat and little forecast rain continue to impact the province, a report says.

“Unpredictable weather patterns related to climate change are expected to continue in the years ahead and BC Hydro is constantly adapting to these evolving conditions, especially after events such as record demand in 2021 that tested the grid,” said the report, titled “Casting drought: How climate change is contributing to uncertain weather and how BC Hydro’s generation system is adapting.”

The study said there is no concern with BC Hydro being able to continue to deliver power through the drought because there is enough water at its larger facilities, even as issues like crypto mining electricity use draw scrutiny from observers.

Still, it said, with no meaningful precipitation in the forecast, its smaller facilities in the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island will continue to see record low or near record low inflows for this time of the year.

“In the Lower Mainland, inflows since the beginning of September are ranked in the bottom three compared to historical records,” the report said.

The report said the hydroelectric system is directly impacted by variations in weather and the record-setting, unseasonably dry and warm weather this fall highlights the impacts of climate change, while demand patterns can be counterintuitive, as electricity use even increased during Earth Hour 2018 in some areas, hinting at challenges to come.

It noted symptoms of climate change include increased frequency of extreme events like drought and intense storms, and rapid glacial melt.

“With the extremely hot and dry conditions, BC Hydro has been taking proactive steps at many of our South Coast facilities for months to conserve water to protect the downstream fish habit,” spokesperson Mora Scott said. “We began holding back water in July and August at some facilities anticipating the dry conditions to help ensure we would have water storage for the later summer and early fall salmon spawning.”

Scott said BC Hydro’s reservoirs play an important role in managing these difficult conditions by using storage and planning releases to provide protection to downstream river flows. The reservoirs are, in effect, a battery waiting to be used for power.

While the dry conditions have had an impact on BC Hydro’s watersheds, several unregulated natural river systems — not related to BC Hydro — have fared worse, with rivers drying up and thousands of fish killed, the report said.

BC Hydro is currently seeing the most significant impacts on operations at Puntledge and Campbell River on Vancouver Island as well as Coquitlam and Ruskin/Stave in the Lower Mainland.

To help manage water levels on Vancouver Island, BC Hydro reduced Puntledge River flows by one-third last week and on the Lower Mainland reduced flows at Coquitlam by one-third and Ruskin/Stave by one quarter.

However, the utility company said, there are no concerns about continued power delivery.

“British Columbians benefit from BC Hydro’s integrated, provincial electricity system, which helps send power across the province, including to Vancouver Island, and programs like the winter payment plan support customers during colder months,” staff said.

Most of the electricity generated and used in B.C. is produced by larger facilities in the north and southeast of the province — and while water levels in those areas are below normal levels, there is enough water to meet the province’s power needs, even as additions like Site C's electricity remain a subject of debate among observers.

The Glacier Media investigation found a quarter of BC Hydro's power comes from the Mica, Revelstoke and Hugh Keenleyside dams on the Columbia River. Some 29% comes from dams in the Peace region, including the under-construction Site C project that has faced cost overruns. At certain points of the year, those reservoirs are reliant on glacier water.

Still, BC Hydro remains optimistic.

Forecasts are currently showing little rain in the near-term; however, historically, precipitation and inflows show up by the end of October. If that does not happen, BC Hydro said it would continue to closely track weather and inflow forecasts to adapt its operations to protect fish, while regional cooperation such as bridging with Alberta remains part of broader policy discussions.

Among things BC Hydro said it is doing to adapt are:

Continuously working to improve its weather and inflow forecasting;
Expanding its hydroclimate monitoring technology, including custom-made solutions that have been designed in-house, as well as upgrading snow survey stations to automated, real-time snow and climate stations, and;
Investing in capital projects — like spillway gate replacements — that will increase resiliency of the system to climate change.

 

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Alberta Proposes Electricity Market Changes

Alberta Electricity Market Reforms aim to boost grid reliability and efficiency through a day-ahead market, transmission policy changes, clearer pricing signals, AESO oversight, and smarter siting near existing infrastructure to lower consumer costs.

 

Key Points

Policies add a day-ahead market and transmission fees to modernize the grid and improve reliability.

✅ Day-ahead market for clearer pricing and scheduling

✅ Up-front, non-refundable transmission payments by generators

✅ AESO to draft new rules by end of 2025

 

The Alberta government is implementing significant electricity policy changes to its electricity market to enhance system reliability and efficiency. These reforms aim to modernize the grid, accommodate growing energy demands, and align with best practices observed in other jurisdictions.

Proposed Market Reforms

The government has outlined several key initiatives:

  • Day-Ahead Market Implementation: Introducing a day-ahead market is intended to provide clearer pricing signals and improve the scheduling of electricity generation. This approach allows market participants to plan and commit to energy production in advance, enhancing grid stability.

  • Transmission Policy Revisions: The government proposes reforms to transmission policies, including the introduction of up-front and non-refundable transmission payments from new power generators. These payments would vary based on the proximity of new generators to existing transmission lines with available capacity. As part of a broader market overhaul, this strategy encourages the development of power plants in areas where existing infrastructure can be utilized, potentially reducing costs for consumers and businesses.

Government's Objectives

Minister of Affordability and Utilities, Nathan Neudorf, emphasized that these changes are necessary to meet growing energy demands and modernize Alberta’s electricity system. The government's goal is to create a more reliable and efficient electrical system that benefits both consumers and the broader economy.

Industry Reactions

The proposed reforms have elicited mixed reactions from industry stakeholders amid profound sector change across Alberta:

  • Renewable Energy Sector Concerns: The Canadian Renewable Energy Association (CanREA) has expressed concerns about the potential for punitive market and transmission changes, and some retailers have similarly urged caution. They advocate for policies that support the integration of renewable energy sources and ensure fair treatment within the market.

  • Regulatory Oversight: The Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO) is tasked with preparing restructured energy market rules by the end of 2025. This timeline reflects the government's commitment to a thorough and consultative approach to market reform.

Implications for Consumers

The Alberta government's proposed market changes aim to enhance the reliability and efficiency of the electricity system by considering measures such as a Rate of Last Resort to provide additional stability. By encouraging the development of power plants in areas with existing infrastructure, the reforms seek to reduce costs for consumers and businesses. However, the success of these initiatives will depend on careful implementation and ongoing engagement with all stakeholders to balance the diverse interests involved.

Alberta's proposed electricity market reforms represent a significant step toward modernizing the province's energy infrastructure. By introducing a day-ahead market and revising transmission policies, the government aims to create a more reliable and efficient electrical system and promote market competition more effectively. While these changes have generated diverse reactions, they underscore the government's commitment to addressing the evolving energy needs of Alberta's residents and businesses.

 

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BC Hydro suspends new crypto mining connections due to extreme electricity use

BC Hydro Cryptocurrency Mining Suspension pauses new grid connections for Bitcoin data centers, preserving electricity for EVs, heat pumps, and industry electrification, as Site C capacity and megawatt demand trigger provincial energy policy review.

 

Key Points

An 18-month pause on new crypto-mining grid hookups to preserve electricity for EVs, heat pumps, and electrification.

✅ 18-month moratorium on new BC Hydro crypto connections

✅ Preserves capacity for EVs, heat pumps, and industry

✅ 21 pending mines sought 1,403 MW; Site C adds 1,100 MW

 

New cryptocurrency mining businesses in British Columbia are now temporarily banned from being hooked up to BC Hydro’s electrical grid.

The 18-month suspension on new electricity-connection requests is intended to provide the electrical utility and provincial government with the time needed, a move similar to N.B. Power's pause during a crypto review, to create a permanent framework for any future additional cryptocurrency mining operations.

Currently, BC Hydro already provides electricity to seven cryptocurrency mining operations, and six more are in advanced stages of being connected to the grid, with a combined total power consumption of 273 megawatts. These existing operations, unlike the Siwash Creek project now in limbo, will not be affected by the temporary ban.

The electrical utility’s suspension comes at a time when there are 21 applications to open cryptocurrency mining businesses in BC, even as electricity imports supplement the grid during peaks, which would have a combined total power consumption of 1,403 megawatts — equivalent to the electricity needed for 570,000 homes or 2.3 million battery-electric vehicles annually.

In fact, the 21 cryptocurrency mining businesses would completely wipe out the new electrical capacity gained by building the $16 billion Site C hydroelectric dam, alongside two newly commissioned stations that add supply, which has an output capacity of 1,100 megawatts or enough power for the equivalent of 450,000 homes. Site C is expected to be operational by 2025.

Cryptocurrency mining, such as Bitcoin, use a very substantial amount of electricity to operate high-powered computers around the clock, which perform complex cryptographic and math problems to verify transactions. High electricity needs are the result of not only to run the racks of computers, but to provide extreme cooling given the significant heat produced.

“We are suspending electricity connection requests from cryptocurrency mining operators to preserve our electricity supply for people who are switching to electric vehicles, amid BC Hydro's first call for power in 15 years, and heat pumps, and for businesses and industries that are undertaking electrification projects that reduce carbon emissions and generate jobs and economic opportunities,” said Josie Osborne, the BC minister of energy, mines and low carbon innovation, adding that cryptocurrency mining creates very few jobs for the local economy.

Such businesses are attracted to BC due to the availability of its clean, plentiful, and cheap hydroelectricity, which LNG companies continue to seek for their operations as well.

If left unchecked, the provincial government suggests BC Hydro’s long-term electrical capacity could be wiped out by cryptocurrency mining operations, even as debates over going nuclear persist among residents across the province.

 

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BC Hydro Expects To See Electricity Usage Rise This Holiday Season

BC Hydro Holiday Electricity Usage is set to rise as energy demand increases during peak 4-10 pm on Christmas and Boxing Day, driven by larger gatherings, more cooking, and eased COVID-19 restrictions province-wide.

 

Key Points

Expected rise in power demand on Christmas and Boxing Day evenings versus 2020, driven by larger gatherings and cooking.

✅ Peak hours 4-10 pm expected to rise in provincial load.

✅ 2020 saw 4% and 7% drops vs 2019 on Christmas and Boxing Day.

✅ Holiday lighting adds ~3% to use; switching to LED can save ~$40.

 

BC Hydro data showed residential electricity load in the Cariboo and throughout the province, even as drought affects generation dynamics heading into winter, dropped on Christmas Day and Boxing Day in 2020.

Northern Community Relations Manager, Bob Gammer, said the decrease was due in part to more people following the COVID-19 restrictions and not getting together for big meals, even though 2018 Earth Hour usage increased elsewhere illustrates how behavior can sometimes raise demand.

However, this year Gammer said between 4 and 10 pm on those two days, BC Hydro does expect to see a change in overall usage, aligning with all-time high demand trends reported recently in B.C.

“On Christmas Day and Boxing Day, we expect to see increases through those hours and a little bit more so between 4 and 10 pm we should see the amount of power being consumed across the province, as record-breaking 2021 demand indicated earlier, going up compared to what it was on those two days last year.”

In 2020 on Christmas Day evening hydro usage dropped by over 4 percent and Boxing Day evening decreased by 7 percent compared to 2019, whereas regions like Calgary's winter demand have seen spikes during extreme cold.

Gammer added after BC Hydro surveyed their customers and introduced a winter payment plan, they expect to see a lot more cooking happening on Christmas Day and Boxing Day this year as people are intending to have larger gatherings and visit friends.

We asked Gammer about hydro usage when it comes to homes decked out for the holidays, and how that compares to newer loads like crypto mining activity in B.C.

“The Christmas lighting displays people have, not just indoors but outdoors as well, what we’re seeing is about a 3 percent increase in electricity consumption overall through the Christmas season. If people switch, if you still have older lights that are incandescent, switch those over to LED, and through the season it could wind up saving you $40 in electricity just switching over about 8 strings of lights to LED.”

 

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External investigators looking into alleged assaults by Manitoba Hydro workers

Manitoba Hydro Allegations Investigation reveals RCMP and OPP probes into 1960s abuses in northern Manitoba, affecting Fox Lake Cree Nation, citing racism, discrimination, sexual assault, and oversight by the IIU and Clean Environment Commission.

 

Key Points

A coordinated probe into historic abuses tied to Manitoba Hydro projects, led by OPP and IIU after RCMP referral.

✅ OPP to investigate historical cases involving Hydro staff and contractors.

✅ IIU to examine any allegations implicating Manitoba RCMP officers.

✅ Findings follow CEC report on racism and abuse near Fox Lake.

 

Manitoba RCMP have called in outside investigators to probe alleged assaults linked to hydro projects in the province’s north during the 1960s.

RCMP say any historical criminal investigations involving Manitoba Hydro employees or contractors will be handled by the Ontario Provincial Police.

The Independent Investigation Unit of Manitoba, the province’s police watchdog, will investigate any allegations involving RCMP officers.

A report released last month by an arm’s-length review agency outlined racism, discrimination and sexual abuse at the Crown-owned utility’s work sites dating back decades, while projects like Site C COVID-19 updates provide contemporary examples of reporting.

Much of the development at that time was centered around the community of Gillam and the nearby Fox Lake Cree Nation.

The report said the presence of a largely male construction workforce led to the sexual abuse of Indigenous women, some of whom said their complaints were ignored by the RCMP, and in a different context, Hydro One worker injury highlights safety risks in the sector.

Premier Brian Pallister says his government is taking the right approach to addressing alleged sexual assaults and racism by Manitoba Hydro workers against members of a remote northern First Nation, while pandemic cost-cutting at Manitoba Hydro has shaped recent operations.

Pallister made his first public comments about the allegations after a private meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Tuesday evening, as COVID-19 reshaped Saskatchewan and other Prairie priorities were in focus.

The allegations, made by members of Fox Lake Cree Nation, were revealed in a report produced by the Clean Environment Commission. The report was released by the provincial government in August, although it was completed in May.

Allegations against Manitoba Hydro workers: What you need to know

"My reaction would be that's deplorable behaviour, and I have to admit, my puzzlement is why this wasn't investigated sooner or didn't come to light sooner," Pallister said, adding that he believes his government has taken the right approach by referring the information to the RCMP.

Some members of Fox Lake Cree Nation say the government didn't give them any advance notice of the release of the report, so the community was traumatized when it hit the news.

Pallister said his government didn't want to delay the release of the report.

'Pure trauma': Fox Lake members stricken after hasty release of troubling report

"I think the right thing to do is release the report. A lot of this information was in the public domain over the last number of weeks and months anyway. It wasn't the case of it being new in that respect," he said.

However, he accepted criticism of the timeline of the report's release.

"I would rather accept those criticisms, than accept the argument that we were in any way covering up information that is important to be released," he said.

Fox Lake Chief Walter Spence has said he expects Pallister to visit the community.

The premier said Tuesday he was not sure of the effectiveness of such a trip.

"I think most of the communities would prefer that there be electricity jobs for young Canadians created in their communities, that there be better water, many other tangible things rather than symbolism," he said.

"That's what I'm hearing and I've been in dozens of First Nations communities in the last two years."

 

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