GM unveils Volt

By Reuters


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General Motors Corp unveiled the production version of its highly anticipated Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in electric car that is the centerpiece of its effort to move away from gas-guzzling SUVs and recharge sagging sales.

Chief Executive Rick Wagoner introduced the small, curvy four-seater at the automaker's Detroit headquarters during an event to celebrate GM's 100th anniversary.

"The Volt symbolizes GM's commitment to the future - the kind of technological innovation that our industry needs to respond to today and tomorrow's energy and environmental challenges," Wagoner said.

In what has been billed as a race with Toyota Motor Corp to be the first to market with a plug-in car, GM has pushed hard to develop the Volt in time for it to hit showrooms in 2010. Fanfare surrounding the Volt comes as the No. 1 U.S. automaker has been struggling with flagging sales of less-efficient sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks amid soaring prices at the pump.

Those high gasoline prices, the credit crunch and a slowing economy have dragged U.S. auto sales down to 15-year lows. GM's sales in particular were down 18.5 percent in the first eight months of the year. Fuel-saving hybrid electric cars - like Toyota's popular Prius model - have been one of the few bright spots for the industry in 2008 so far.

GM is cutting billions of dollars in costs and selling off assets to shore up its finances and weather the downturn.

Despite its troubles, however, GM has charged ahead with the Volt, which is designed to run for 40 miles on a lithium-ion battery pack that can be recharged at a standard electric outlet. The car also includes a gas tank for trips longer than 40 miles.

GM says the Volt will cost about 2 cents a mile to operate on battery power, compared with 12 cents a mile using gasoline priced at $3.60 a gallon. The carmaker said the Volt will cost 80 cents a day for a full charge, or less than the price of a cup of coffee.

But before they can get those savings, consumers will be expected to pay a hefty premium for a Volt, with recent price estimates ranging between $30,000 and $50,000.

GM itself won't say how much it expects to charge for a Volt, but product chief Bob Lutz said he hopes the price tag will be "nowhere near" the high end of that range. He added that the company expects federal and state tax credits to help defray the cost for consumers.

The introduction of thousands of electric vehicles still depends on advances in lithium-ion battery technology and the ability to bring down the cost of that key part. Batteries have a tendency to overheat, but Lutz said the Volt's new generation of lithium batteries does not have that problem.

"We have had zero problems with the chemistry of the batteries," he said.

In its first 12 months of production, GM expects to manufacture 10,000 Volt cars in a plant in Detroit, ultimately increasing that to 60,000 a year, Lutz said. He added that the first Volts should hit GM showroom floors by November 2010.

By comparison, Toyota sold around 120,000 of its hybrid Prius brand cars in the first eight months of this year alone. GM sold around 145,000 Cobalt small sedans in the same period.

To increase aerodynamics and help achieve the 40-mile electric range of the Volt, the production model unveiled is more rounded than the concept version GM introduced in January 2007.

GM for the first time also showed off the car's interior, including a digital touch screen that displays both a fuel gauge and a measure of how much battery power the car has left.

The Volt's first iteration will also not be a moneymaker for the company, GM President and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said.

"For most of our (Generation) 1 technologies, I don't know that I have ever seen a situation where we make money," Henderson said. "I don't necessarily think this is going to be the exception."

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Working From Home Will Drive Up Electricity Bills for Consumers

Remote Work Energy Costs are rising as home offices and telecommuting boost electricity bills; utilities, broadband usage, and COVID-19-driven stay-at-home policies affect productivity, consumption patterns, and household budgets across the U.K. and Europe.

 

Key Points

Remote Work Energy Costs are increased household electricity and utility expenses from telecommuting and home office use.

✅ WFH shifts energy load from offices to households.

✅ Higher device, lighting, and heating/cooling usage drives bills.

✅ Broadband access gaps limit remote work equity.

 

Household electricity bills are set to soar, with rising residential electricity use tied to the millions of people now working at home to avoid catching the coronavirus.

Running laptops and other home appliances will cost consumers an extra 52 million pounds ($60 million) each week in the U.K., according to a study from Uswitch, a website that helps consumers compare the energy prices that utilities charge.

For each home-bound household, the pain to the pocketbook may be about 195 pounds per year extra, even as some utilities pursue pandemic cost-cutting to manage financial pressures.

The rise in price for households comes even as overall demand is falling rapidly in Europe, with wide swaths of the economy shut down to keep workers from gathering in one place, and the U.S. grid overseer issuing warnings about potential pandemic impacts on operations.

People stuck at home will plug in computers, lights and appliances when they’d normally be at the office, increasing their consumption.

With the Canadian government declaring a state of emergency due to the coronavirus, companies are enabling work-from-home structures to keep business running and help employees follow social distancing guidelines, and some utilities have even considered housing critical staff on site to maintain operations. However, working remotely has been on the rise for a while.

“The coronavirus is going to be a tipping point. We plodded along at about 10% growth a year for the last 10 years, but I foresee that this is going to really accelerate the trend,” Kate Lister, president of Global Workplace Analytics.

Gallup’s State of the Workplace 2017 study found that 43% of employees work remotely with some frequency. Research indicates that in a five-day workweek, working remotely for two to three days is the most productive. That gives the employee two to three days of meetings, collaboration and interaction, with the opportunity to just focus on the work for the other half of the week.

Remote work seems like a logical precaution for many companies that employ people in the digital economy, even as some federal agencies sparked debate with an EPA telework policy during the pandemic. However, not all Americans have access to the internet at home, and many work in industries that require in-person work.

According to the Pew Research Center, roughly three-quarters of American adults have broadband internet service at home. However, the study found that racial minorities, older adults, rural residents and people with lower levels of education and income are less likely to have broadband service at home. In addition, 1 in 5 American adults access the internet only through their smartphone and do not have traditional broadband access. 

Full-time employees are four times more likely to have remote work options than part-time employees. A typical remote worker is college-educated, at least 45 years old and earns an annual salary of $58,000 while working for a company with more than 100 employees, according to Global Workplace Analytics, and in Canada there is growing interest in electricity-sector careers among younger workers. 

New York, California and other states have enacted strict policies for people to remain at home during the coronavirus pandemic, which could change the future of work, and Canadian provinces such as Saskatchewan have documented how the crisis has reshaped local economies across sectors.

“I don’t think we’ll go back to the same way we used to operate,” Jennifer Christie, chief HR officer at Twitter, told CNBC. “I really don’t.”

 

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Ameren, Safe Electricity urge safety near downed lines

Downed Power Line Vehicle Safety: Follow stay-in-the-car protocol, call 911, avoid live wires and utility poles, and use the bunny hop to escape only for fire. Electrical hazards demand emergency response caution.

 

Key Points

Stay in the car, call 911, and use a bunny hop escape only if fire threatens during downed power line incidents.

✅ Stay in vehicle; tell bystanders to keep back and call 911.

✅ Exit only for fire; jump clear and bunny hop away.

✅ Treat all downed lines as live; avoid paths to ground.

 

Ameren Illinois and Safe Electricity are urging the public to stay in their cars and call 911 in the event of an accident involving a power pole that brings down power lines on or around the car.

In a media simulation Tuesday at the Ameren facility on West Lafayette Avenue, Ameren Illinois employees demonstrated the proper way to react if a power line has fallen on or around a vehicle, as some utilities consider on-site staffing measures during outbreaks. Although the situation might seem rare, Illinois motorists alone hit 3,000 power poles each year, said Krista Lisser, communications director for Safe Energy.

“We want to get the word out that, if you hit a utility pole and a live wire falls on your vehicle, stay in your car,” Lisser said. “Our first reaction is we panic and think we need to get out, a sign of the electrical knowledge gap many people have. That’s not the case, you need to stay in because, when that live wire comes down, electricity is all around you. You may not see it, it may not arc, it may not flash, you may not know if there’s electricity there.”

Should someoneinvolved in such an accident see a good Samaritan attempting to help, he should try to tell the would-be rescuer to stay back to prevent injury to the Samaritan, Ameren Illinois Communications Executive Brian Bretsch said.

“We have seen instances where someone comes up and wants to help you,” Bretsch said. “You want to yell, ‘Please stay away from the vehicle. Everyone is OK. Please stay away.’ You’ll see … instances every now and then where the Samaritan will come up, create that path to ground and get injured, and there are also climbers seeking social media glory who put themselves at risk.”

The only instance in which one should exit a car in the vicinity of a downed wire is if the vehicle is on fire and there is no choice but to exit. In that situation, those in the car should “bunny hop” out of the car by jumping from the car without touching the car and the ground at the same time, Bretsch and Lisser said.

After the initial jump, those escaping the vehicle should continue jumping with both feet together and hands tucked in and away from danger until they are safely clear of the downed wire.

It’s important for everyone to be informed, because an encounter with a live wire could easily result in serious injury, as in the Hydro One worker injury case, or death, Lisser said.

“They’re so close to our roads, especially in our rural communities, that it’s quite a common occurrence,” Lisser said. “Just stay away from (downed lines), especially after storms and amid grid oversight warnings that highlight reliability risks … Always treat a downed line as a live wire. Never assume the line is dead.”

 

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NB Power signs three deals to bring more Quebec electricity into the province

NB Power and Hydro-Québec Electricity Agreements expand clean hydroelectric exports, support Mactaquac dam refurbishment, add grid interconnections, and advance decarbonization, climate goals, reliability, and transmission capacity across Atlantic Canada and U.S. markets through 2040.

 

Key Points

Deals for hydro exports, Mactaquac upgrades, and new interconnections to improve reliability and cut emissions.

✅ 47 TWh to NB by 2040 over existing transmission lines

✅ HQ expertise to address Mactaquac concrete swelling

✅ Talks on new interconnections for Atlantic and U.S. exports

 

NB Power and Hydro-Quebec have signed three deals that will see Quebec sell more electricity to New Brunswick and provide help with the refurbishment of the Mactaquac hydroelectric generating station.

Under the first agreement, Hydro-Quebec will export 47 terawatt hours of electricity to New Brunswick between now and 2040 over existing power lines — expanding on an agreement in place since 2012 and on related regional agreements such as the Churchill Falls deal in Newfoundland and Labrador.

The second deal will see Hydro-Quebec share expertise for part of the refurbishment of the Mactaquac dam to extend the useful life of the generating station until at least 2068, when the 670 megawatt facility on the St. John River will be 100 years old.

Since the 1980s, concrete portions of the facility have been affected by a chemical reaction that causes the concrete to swell and crack.

Hydro-Quebec has been dealing with the same problem, and has developed expertise in addressing the issue.

“This is why we have signed a technical collaboration agreement between Hydro-Quebec and us for part of the refurbishment of the Mactaquac generating station,” NB Power president Gaetan Thomas said Friday.

Eric Martel, CEO of Hydro-Quebec, said hydroelectric plants provide long-term clean power that’s important in the fight against climate change as the province has ruled out nuclear power for now.

“We understand how important it is to ensure the long term sustainability of these facilities and we are happy to share the expertise that Hydro-Quebec has acquired over the years,” Martel said.

The refurbishment of the Mactaquac generating station is expected to cost between $2.9 billion and $3.5 billion. Once the work begins, each of the facility’s six generators will have to be taken offline for months at a time, and Thomas said that’s where the increased power from Quebec, supported by Hydro-Quebec's capacity expansion in recent years, will come into use.

He expects the power could cost about $100 million per year but will be much cheaper than other sources.

The third agreement calls for talks to begin for the construction of additional power connections between Quebec and New Brunswick to increase exports to Atlantic Canada and the United States, where transmission constraints have limited incremental deliveries in recent years.

“Building new interconnections and allowing for increased power transfer between our systems could be mutually beneficial, even as historic tensions in Newfoundland and Labrador linger. More than ever, we are looking to the future,” Martel said.

“Partnering will permit us to seize new business opportunities together and pool our effort to support de-carbonization, including Hydro-Quebec's non-fossil strategy that is now underway, and fight against climate change, both here and in our neighbourhood market,” he said. 

 

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Project examines potential for Europe's power grid to increase HVDC Technology

HVDC-WISE Project accelerates HVDC technology integration across the European transmission system, delivering a planning toolkit to boost grid reliability, resilience, and interconnectors for renewables and offshore wind amid climate, cyber, and physical threats.

 

Key Points

EU-funded project delivering tools to integrate HVDC into Europe's grid, improving reliability, resilience, and security.

✅ EU Horizon Europe-backed consortium of 14 partners

✅ Toolkit to assess extreme events and grid operability

✅ Supports interconnectors, offshore wind, and renewables

 

A partnership of 14 leading European energy industry companies, research organizations and universities has launched a new project to identify opportunities to increase integration of HVDC technology into the European transmission system, echoing calls to invest in smarter electricity infrastructure from abroad.

The HVDC-WISE project, in which the University of Strathclyde is the UK’s only academic partner, is supported by the European Union’s Horizon Europe programme.

The project’s goal is to develop a toolkit for grid developers to evaluate the grid’s performance under extreme conditions and to plan systems, leveraging a digital grid approach that supports coordination to realise the full range of potential benefits from deep integration of HVDC technology into the European transmission system.

The project is focused on enhancing electric grid reliability and resilience while navigating the energy transition. Building and maintaining network infrastructure to move power across Europe is an urgent and complex task, and reducing losses with superconducting cables can play a role, particularly with the continuing growth of wind and solar generation. At the same time, threats to the integrity of the power system are on the rise from multiple sources, including climate, cyber, and physical hazards.

 

Mutual support

At a time of increasing worries about energy security and as Europe’s electricity systems decarbonise, connections between them to provide mutual support and routes to market for energy from renewables, a dynamic also highlighted in discussions of the western Canadian electricity grid in North America, become ever more important.

In modern power systems, this means making use of High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) technology.

The earliest forms of technology have been around since the 1960s, but the impact of increasing reliance on HVDC and its ability to enhance a power system’s operability and resilience are not yet fully understood.

Professor Keith Bell, Scottish Power Professor of Future Power Systems at the University of Strathclyde, said:

As an island, HVDC is the only practical way for us to build connections to other countries’ electricity systems. We’re also making use of it within our system, with one existing and more planned Scotland-England subsea link projects connecting one part of Britain to another.

“These links allow us to maximise our use of wind energy. New links to other countries will also help us when it’s not windy and, together with assets like the 2GW substation now in service, to recover from any major disturbances that might occur.

“The system is always vulnerable to weather and things like lightning strikes or short circuits caused by high winds. As dependency on electricity increases, insights from electricity prediction specialists can inform planning as we enhance the resilience of the system.”

Dr Agusti Egea-Alvarez, Senior Lecturer at Strathclyde, said: “HVDC systems are becoming the backbone of the British and European electric power network, either interconnecting countries, or connecting offshore wind farms.

“The tools, procedures and guides that will be developed during HVDC-WISE will define the security, resilience and reliability standards of the electric network for the upcoming decades in Europe.”

Other project participants include Scottish Hydro Electric Transmission, the Supergrid Institute, the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) Europe, Tennet TSO, Universidad Pontificia Comillas, TU Delft, Tractebel Impact and the University of Cyprus.

 

Climate change

Eamonn Lannoye, Managing Director of EPRI Europe, said: “The European electricity grid is remarkably reliable by any standard. But as the climate changes and the grid becomes exposed to more extreme conditions, energy interdependence between regions intensifies and threats from external actors emerge. The new grid needs to be robust to those challenges.”

Juan Carlos Gonzalez, a senior researcher with the SuperGrid Institute which leads the project said: “The HVDC-WISE project is intended to provide planners with the tools and know-how to understand how grid development options perform in the context of changing threats and to ensure reliability.”

HVDC-WISE is supported by the European Union’s Horizon Europe programme under agreement 101075424 and by the UK Research and Innovation Horizon Europe Guarantee scheme.

 

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Affordable, safe' nuclear power is key to reaching Canada's climate goals: federal minister

Canada Nuclear Power Expansion highlights SMRs, clean energy, net-zero targets, and robust regulation to deliver safe, reliable baseload electricity, spur investment, and economically decarbonize remote communities, mines, and grids across provinces securely.

 

Key Points

Canada Nuclear Power Expansion grows SMRs and reactors to meet climate targets with safe, reliable baseload power.

✅ Deploys SMRs for remote communities, mines, and industrial sites

✅ Streamlines regulation to ensure safety, trust, and timely approvals

✅ Provides clean, reliable baseload to hit net-zero electricity goals

 

Canada must expand its nuclear power capacity if it is to reach its climate targets, according to Canadian Minister of Natural Resources Seamus Oregan.

Speaking to the Canadian Nuclear Association’s annual conference, Seamus O’Regan said the industry has to grow.

“As the world tackles a changing climate, nuclear power is poised to provide the next wave of clean, affordable, safe and reliable power,” he told a packed room.

The Ottawa conference was the largest the industry has run with dozens of companies and more than 900 people in attendance. Provincial cabinet ministers from Saskatchewan and Ontario were also there. Those two provinces, along with New Brunswick, signed a memorandum in December as part of a premiers' nuclear initiative to work together on small modular reactor technology.

People need to know that it’s safe

Small modular reactors are units that produce less power than large generating stations, but can be constructed easier and are expected to be safer to operate. Canadian firms have about a dozen of the proposed reactors working their way through the regulatory process, with New Brunswick's SMR plans drawing scrutiny.

The smaller reactors could be used in groups to replace large units, but the industry also hopes to use them in rural or isolated communities, mines or even oilsands projects, potentially replacing the diesel power generators some remote communities use.

The Canadian government issued a road map to support the industry in 2018 and O’Regan committed Thursday to putting some teeth on that proposal later this year, as provinces like Ontario explore new large-scale nuclear plants to meet demand, with specific steps the government will take.

“We have been working so hard to support this industry. We are placing nuclear energy front and centre, something that has never been done before.”

O’Regan said the government’s role is a clear, streamlined regulatory system that will promote the industry, but also help the Canadian public to trust the reactors will be safe.

“People need to know that it’s safe. They need to know that it’s regulated. They need to know that it’s safe for them,” he said.

The Liberals promised during the campaign that they would gradually reduce Canada’s carbon emissions even after hitting the targets in the Paris Agreement by 2030. By 2050, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he expects Canada to be carbon neutral, mindful of lessons from Europe's power crisis on reliability.

The government hasn’t outlined how it will achieve that goal. O’Regan said more detail is coming, but it’s clear that nuclear is going to have to play a major part, echoing the UK’s green industrial revolution approach to reactor deployment.

“I have not seen a credible plan for net zero without nuclear as part of the mix. I don’t think we are going to be relying on any one technology. I think it’s going to be a whole host of things.”

O’Regan said large investors are looking for countries that are on the path to net zero.

“Everybody has their shirt sleeves rolled up and we know we need to work on this, not only do we have to work on this for the urgency of the planet, but we have to work on it for Canadian jobs.”

He added, “We must focus on those areas where Canada can and should lead, like nuclear.”

Canadians are ready to take a fresh look at nuclear

John Gorman, president of the Canadian Nuclear Association, said he was thrilled with O’Regan’s comments.

“I took the minister’s remarks this morning as being perhaps the strongest language of support for the nuclear industry in a number of years.”

Gorman said the industry is in strong shape and is working with utility companies such as Ontario Power Generation and regulators to move projects forward.

“It’s this amazing collaboration and coordination that is enabling us to beat others to the roll out of these small modular reactors,” he said.

He said provinces that might not have looked at nuclear before now have an incentive to do it, because of climate change. A former solar industry executive, Gorman said solar and wind power are important, as Ontario plans to seek new wind and solar power to ease supply pressures, but they won’t be able to keep up with rising power demands.

“Globally we are seeing increased recognition that climate change is real and that it’s a crisis, we are also seeing recognition that we are not making as much progress on decarbonizing our electricity system as we thought,” he said. “Canadians are ready to take a fresh look at nuclear and see the real facts.”

 

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How Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

Bitcoin Energy Consumption drives debate on blockchain mining, proof-of-work, carbon footprint, and emissions, with CCAF estimates in terawatt hours highlighting electricity demand, fossil fuel reliance, and sustainability concerns for data centers and cryptocurrency networks.

 

Key Points

Electricity used by Bitcoin proof-of-work mining, often fossil-fueled, estimated by CCAF in terawatt hours.

✅ CCAF: 40-445 TWh, central estimate ~130 TWh

✅ ~66% of mining electricity sourced from fossil fuels

✅ Proof-of-work increases hash rate, energy, and emissions

 

The University of Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance (CCAF) studies the burgeoning business of cryptocurrencies.

It calculates that Bitcoin's total energy consumption is somewhere between 40 and 445 annualised terawatt hours (TWh), with a central estimate of about 130 terawatt hours.

The UK's electricity consumption is a little over 300 TWh a year, while Argentina uses around the same amount of power as the CCAF's best guess for Bitcoin, as countries like New Zealand's electricity future are debated to balance demand.

And the electricity the Bitcoin miners use overwhelmingly comes from polluting sources, with the U.S. grid not 100% renewable underscoring broader energy mix challenges worldwide.

The CCAF team surveys the people who manage the Bitcoin network around the world on their energy use and found that about two-thirds of it is from fossil fuels, and some regions are weighing curbs like Russia's proposed mining ban amid electricity deficits.

Huge computing power - and therefore energy use - is built into the way the blockchain technology that underpins the cryptocurrency has been designed.

It relies on a vast decentralised network of computers.

These are the so-called Bitcoin "miners" who enable new Bitcoins to be created, but also independently verify and record every transaction made in the currency.

In fact, the Bitcoins are the reward miners get for maintaining this record accurately.

It works like a lottery that runs every 10 minutes, explains Gina Pieters, an economics professor at the University of Chicago and a research fellow with the CCAF team.

Data processing centres around the world, including hotspots such as Iceland's mining strain, race to compile and submit this record of transactions in a way that is acceptable to the system.

They also have to guess a random number.

The first to submit the record and the correct number wins the prize - this becomes the next block in the blockchain.

Estimates for bitcoin's electricity consumption
At the moment, they are rewarded with six-and-a-quarter Bitcoins, valued at about $50,000 each.

As soon as one lottery is over, a new number is generated, and the whole process starts again.

The higher the price, says Prof Pieters, the more miners want to get into the game, and utilities like BC Hydro suspending new crypto connections highlight grid pressures.

"They want to get that revenue," she tells me, "and that's what's going to encourage them to introduce more and more powerful machines in order to guess this random number, and therefore you will see an increase in energy consumption," she says.

And there is another factor that drives Bitcoin's increasing energy consumption.

The software ensures it always takes 10 minutes for the puzzle to be solved, so if the number of miners is increasing, the puzzle gets harder and the more computing power needs to be thrown at it.

Bitcoin is therefore actually designed to encourage increased computing effort.

The idea is that the more computers that compete to maintain the blockchain, the safer it becomes, because anyone who might want to try and undermine the currency must control and operate at least as much computing power as the rest of the miners put together.

What this means is that, as Bitcoin gets more valuable, the computing effort expended on creating and maintaining it - and therefore the energy consumed - inevitably increases.

We can track how much effort miners are making to create the currency.

They are currently reckoned to be making 160 quintillion calculations every second - that's 160,000,000,000,000,000,000, in case you were wondering.

And this vast computational effort is the cryptocurrency's Achilles heel, says Alex de Vries, the founder of the Digiconomist website and an expert on Bitcoin.

All the millions of trillions of calculations it takes to keep the system running aren't really doing any useful work.

"They're computations that serve no other purpose," says de Vries, "they're just immediately discarded again. Right now we're using a whole lot of energy to produce those calculations, but also the majority of that is sourced from fossil energy, and clean energy's 'dirty secret' complicates substitution."

The vast effort it requires also makes Bitcoin inherently difficult to scale, he argues.

"If Bitcoin were to be adopted as a global reserve currency," he speculates, "the Bitcoin price will probably be in the millions, and those miners will have more money than the entire [US] Federal budget to spend on electricity."

"We'd have to double our global energy production," he says with a laugh, even as some argue cheap abundant electricity is getting closer to reality today. "For Bitcoin."

He says it also limits the number of transactions the system can process to about five per second.

This doesn't make for a useful currency, he argues.

Rising price of bitcoin graphic
And that view is echoed by many eminent figures in finance and economics.

The two essential features of a successful currency are that it is an effective form of exchange and a stable store of value, says Ken Rogoff, a professor of economics at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

He says Bitcoin is neither.

"The fact is, it's not really used much in the legal economy now. Yes, one rich person sells it to another, but that's not a final use. And without that it really doesn't have a long-term future."

What he is saying is that Bitcoin exists almost exclusively as a vehicle for speculation.

So, I want to know: is the bubble about to burst?

"That's my guess," says Prof Rogoff and pauses.

"But I really couldn't tell you when."

 

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