Wind turbines making us sick: protesters

By Toronto Star


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The Liberal government has shot down an opposition motion to place an immediate moratorium on wind turbines until their health effects are further studied.

Nearly 250 people descended on QueenÂ’s Park to protest the presence of the turbines near residential areas. They claim the turbines cause lowfrequency noise and have sickened nearly 106 Ontario residents, causing a variety of health ailments ranging from hypertension to sleeplessness and nosebleeds in children.

People are suffering and their concerns are being dismissed, Dr. Robert McMurtry told the protesters.

“I see their lack of energy and things they are feeling,” the Londonarea surgeon said. “But the thing I can’t tolerate… is the steadfast denial of the complaints.”

The Progressive Conservatives brought forward a motion calling for an immediate moratorium on the turbines until health studies are completed. The motion was defeated by the majority Liberals.

A moratorium is unnecessary, Premier Dalton McGuinty said. “Wind turbines have been up and running for decades in dozens, if not hundreds, of jurisdictions,” he told reporters. “We are relatively late coming to electricity generation by means of wind power.”

Ontario has some of the most rigorous standards in North America in terms of wind power and the province is funding a university research chair to study the longterm effects of the turbines, he added.

The world needs to figure out new ways of generating clean energy, the premier said.

“There are no real easy decisions in all this. We’ve decided it would be a good thing to get rid of coal. It makes our kids sick and contributes to global warming,” he said.

During Question Period, PC MPP Joyce Savoline Burlington asked the premier why people are blocked from having a say in the placement of industrial wind farms, but are allowed to voice opinions on where shopping malls are built.

“Why does the premier think Dalton knows best when it comes to putting large industrial wind turbines in place?” she asked.

Energy Minister Brad Duguid said there is “plenty of room for consultation” on the projects and that municipalities are involved in the decision making.

On the front steps of the Legislature, protesters accused the Liberals of fasttracking renewable energy projects in the name of the Green Energy Act – legislation passed last May to bolster the green economy. They say the province has bypassed planning powers of municipalities.

“There appears to be significant scientific uncertainty of how close you can have industrial turbines to where people live,” said Eric Gillespie, an environmental lawyer. He is representing Ian Hanna, a citizen whose application for judicial review of the Green Energy Act as it applies to wind turbines will be heard in September.

Currently, the turbines must be set back 550 metres from homes but Gillespie said to be safe it should be nearly 2 kilometres. “If you are going to have industrial turbines, you need to cite them in locations you can say with some degree of certainty, are safe.”

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Britain's energy security bill set to become law

UK Energy Security Bill drives private investment, diversifies from fossil fuels with hydrogen and offshore wind, strengthens an independent system operator, and extends the retail price cap to shield consumers from volatile gas markets.

 

Key Points

A UK plan to reform energy, cut fossil fuel reliance, boost hydrogen and wind, and extend the retail price cap.

✅ Targets £100bn private investment and 480,000 jobs by 2030.

✅ Creates an independent system operator for grid planning.

✅ Extends retail energy price cap; mitigates volatile gas costs.

 

The British government said that plans to bolster the country's energy security, diversify away from fossil fuels amid the Europe energy crisis and protect consumers from spiralling prices are set to become law.

Britain's energy security bill will be introduced to Parliament on Wednesday and includes 26 measures to reform the energy system, including ending the gas-electricity price link, and reduce its dependency on fossil fuels and exposure to volatile gas prices.

Global energy prices have skyrocketed this year, and UK natural gas and electricity have risen sharply, particularly after Russia's invasion of Ukraine which has led to many European countries trying to reduce reliance on Russian pipeline gas and seek cheaper alternatives.

The bill will help drive 100 billion pounds ($119 billion) of private sector investment by 2030 into industries to diversify Britain's energy supply, including hydrogen and offshore wind, which could help lower costs as a 16% decrease in bills in April is anticipated, and create around 480,000 jobs by the end of the decade, the government said.

"We’re going to slash red tape, get investment into the UK, and grab as much global market share as possible in new technologies to make this plan a reality," Business and Energy Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng, amid high winter energy costs, said in a statement.

The bill will establish a new independent system operator to coordinate and plan Britain's energy system, while MPs move to restrict prices for gas and electricity through oversight.

It will also enable the extension of a cap on retail energy prices beyond 2023, with the price cap cost under scrutiny, which limits the amount suppliers can charge for each unit of gas and electricity.

The bill will also enable the secretary of state to prevent potential disruptions to the downstream oil sector due to industrial action or malicious protests, the government added.

 

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Germany's Call for Hydrogen-Ready Power Plants

Germany Hydrogen-Ready Power Plants Tender accelerates the energy transition by enabling clean energy generation, decarbonization, and green hydrogen integration through retrofit and new-build capacity, resilient infrastructure, flexible storage, and grid reliability provisions.

 

Key Points

Germany tender to build or convert plants for hydrogen, advancing decarbonization, energy security, and clean power.

✅ Hydrogen-ready retrofits and new-build generation capacity

✅ Supports decarbonization, grid reliability, and flexible storage

✅ Future-proof design for green hydrogen supply integration

 

Germany, a global leader in energy transition and environmental sustainability, has recently launched an ambitious call for tenders aimed at developing hydrogen-ready power plants. This initiative is a significant step in the country's strategy to transform its energy infrastructure and support the broader goal of a greener economy. The move underscores Germany’s commitment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and advancing clean energy technologies.

The Need for Hydrogen-Ready Power Plants

Hydrogen, often hailed as a key player in the future of clean energy, offers a promising solution for decarbonizing various sectors, including power generation. Unlike fossil fuels, hydrogen produces zero carbon emissions when used in fuel cells or burned. This makes it an ideal candidate for replacing conventional energy sources that contribute to climate change.

Germany’s push for hydrogen-ready power plants reflects the country’s recognition of hydrogen’s potential in achieving its climate goals. Traditional power plants, which typically rely on coal, natural gas, or oil, emit substantial amounts of CO2. Transitioning these plants to utilize hydrogen can significantly reduce their carbon footprint and align with Germany's climate targets.

The Details of the Tender

The recent tender call is part of Germany's broader strategy to incorporate hydrogen into its energy mix, amid a nuclear option debate in climate policy. The tender seeks proposals for power plants that can either be converted to use hydrogen or be built with hydrogen capability from the outset. This approach allows for flexibility and innovation in how hydrogen technology is integrated into existing and new energy infrastructures.

One of the critical aspects of this initiative is the focus on “hydrogen readiness.” This means that power plants must be designed or retrofitted to operate with hydrogen either exclusively or in combination with other fuels. The goal is to ensure that these facilities can adapt to the growing availability of hydrogen and seamlessly transition from conventional fuels without significant additional modifications.

By setting such requirements, Germany aims to stimulate the development of technologies that can handle hydrogen’s unique properties and ensure that the infrastructure is future-proofed. This includes addressing challenges related to hydrogen storage, transportation, and combustion, and exploring concepts like storing electricity in natural gas pipes for system flexibility.

Strategic Implications for Germany

Germany’s call for hydrogen-ready power plants has several strategic implications. First and foremost, it aligns with the country’s broader energy strategy, which emphasizes the need for a transition from fossil fuels to cleaner alternatives, building on its decision to phase out coal and nuclear domestically. As part of its commitment to the Paris Agreement and its own climate action plans, Germany has set ambitious targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and increasing the share of renewable energy in its energy mix.

Hydrogen plays a crucial role in this strategy, particularly for sectors where direct electrification is challenging. For instance, heavy industry and certain industrial processes, such as green steel production, require high-temperature heat that is difficult to achieve with electricity alone. Hydrogen can fill this gap, providing a cleaner alternative to natural gas and coal.

Moreover, this initiative helps Germany bolster its leadership in green technology and innovation. By investing in hydrogen infrastructure, Germany positions itself as a pioneer in the global energy transition, potentially influencing international standards and practices. The development of hydrogen-ready power plants also opens up new economic opportunities, including job creation in engineering, construction, and technology sectors.

Challenges and Opportunities

While the push for hydrogen-ready power plants presents significant opportunities, it also comes with challenges. Hydrogen production, especially green hydrogen produced from renewable sources, remains relatively expensive compared to conventional fuels. Scaling up production and reducing costs are critical for making hydrogen a viable alternative for widespread use.

Furthermore, integrating hydrogen into existing power infrastructure, alongside electricity grid expansion, requires careful planning and investment. Issues such as retrofitting existing plants, ensuring safe handling of hydrogen, and developing efficient storage and transportation systems must be addressed.

Despite these challenges, the long-term benefits of hydrogen integration are substantial, and a net-zero roadmap indicates electricity costs could fall by a third. Hydrogen can enhance energy security, reduce reliance on imported fossil fuels, and support global climate goals. For Germany, this initiative is a step towards realizing its vision of a sustainable, low-carbon energy system.

Conclusion

Germany’s call for hydrogen-ready power plants is a forward-thinking move that reflects its commitment to sustainability and innovation. By encouraging the development of infrastructure capable of using hydrogen, Germany is taking a significant step towards a cleaner energy future. While challenges remain, the strategic focus on hydrogen underscores Germany’s leadership in the global transition to a low-carbon economy. As the world grapples with the urgent need to address climate change, Germany’s approach serves as a model for integrating emerging technologies into national energy strategies.

 

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Energy-insecure households in the U.S. pay 27% more for electricity than others

Community Solar for Low-Income Homes expands energy equity by delivering renewable energy access, predictable bill savings, and tax credit benefits to renters and energy-insecure households, accelerating distributed generation and storage adoption nationwide.

 

Key Points

A program model enabling renters and LMI households to subscribe to off-site solar and save on utility bills.

✅ Earn bill credits from shared solar generation.

✅ Expands access for renters and LMI subscribers.

✅ Often paired with storage and IRA tax credit adders.

 

On a square-foot basis, the issue of inequality is made worse by higher costs for energy usage in the nation. Efforts like community solar programs such as Maryland community solar are underway to boost low-income participation in the cost benefits of renewable energy.

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) shows that households that are considered energy insecure, or those that have the inability to adequately meet basic household energy costs, are paying more for electricity than their wealthier counterparts. 

On average in the United States in 2020, households were billed about $1.04 per square foot for all energy sources. For homes that did not report energy insecurity, that average was $0.98 per square foot, while homes with energy insecurity issues paid an average of $1.24 per square foot for energy. This means that U.S. residents that need the most support on their energy bills are stuck with costs 27% higher than their neighbors on square-foot-basis.

EIA said energy-insecure households have reduced or forgone basic necessities to pay energy bills, kept their houses at unsafe temperatures because of energy cost concerns, or been unable to repair heating or cooling equipment because of cost.

In 2020, households with income less than $10,000 a year were billed an average of $1.31 per square foot for energy, while households making $100,000 or more were billed an average of $0.96 per square foot, said EIA. Renters paid considerably more ($1.28 per square foot) than owners ($0.98 per square foot). There were also considerable differences between regions, with New England solar growth sparking grid upgrade debates, ethnic groups and races, and insulation levels, as seen below.

The energy transition toward renewables like solar has offered price stability, amid record solar and storage growth nationwide, but thus far energy-insecure communities have relatively been left behind. A recent Berkeley Lab report, Residential Solar-Adopter Income and Demographic Trends, indicates that even though the rate of solar adoption among low-income residents is increasing (from 5% in 2010 to 11% in 2021), that segment of energy consumers remains under-represented among solar adopters, relative to its share of the population.


Community solar efforts

As such, the United States is targeting communities most impacted by energy costs that have not benefitted from the transition, highlighting “Energy Communities” that are eligible for an additional 10% tax credit through funds made possible by the Inflation Reduction Act.

Additionally, a push for community solar development is taking place nationwide to extend access to affordable solar energy to renters and other residents that aren’t able to leverage finances to invest in predictable, low-cost residential solar systems. The Biden Administration set a goal this year to sign up 5 million community solar households, achieving $1 billion in bill savings by 2025. The community solar model only represents about 8% of the total distributed solar capacity in the nation. This target would entail a jump from 3 GW installed capacity to 20 GW by the target year. The Department of Energy estimates community solar subscribers save an average of 20% on their bills.

California this year passed AB 2316, the Community Renewable Energy Act takes aim at four acute problems in the state’s power market: reliability amid rising outage risks, rates, climate and equity. The law creates a community renewable energy program, including community solar-plus-storage, supported by cheaper batteries, to overcome access barriers for nearly half of Californians who rent or have low incomes. Community solar typically involves customers subscribing to an off-site solar facility, receiving a utility bill credit for the power it generates.

“Community renewable energy is a proven powerful tool to help close California’s clean energy gap, bringing much needed relief to millions struggling with high housing costs and utility debt,” said Alexis Sutterman, energy equity program manager at the California Environmental Justice Alliance.

The program has energy equity baked into its structure, working to make sure Californians of all income levels participate in the benefits of the energy transition. Not only does it open solar access to renters, the law ensures that at least 51% of subscribers are low-income customers, which is expected to make projects eligible for a 10% tax credit adder under the IRA.

“The money’s on the table now,” said Jeff Cramer, president and chief executive of the Coalition for Community Solar Access. “While there are groups pushing for solar access for all, and states with strong legislation, there are other pockets of interest in surprising places in the United States. For example, Louisiana has no policy for community solar or support for low-income residents going solar but the city of New Orleans has its own utility commission with a community solar program. In Nebraska, forward-looking co-operatives have created community solar projects.

Community solar markets are active in 22 states, with more expected to come online in the future as states pursue 100% clean energy targets across the country. However, the market is expected to require strong community outreach efforts to foster trust and gain subscribers.

“There is a distrust of community solar initially in LMI communities as many have been burned before by retail energy false promises,” said Eric LaMora, executive director, community solar, Nautilus Solar on a panel at the Solar Energy Industries Association Finance, Tax, and Buyers seminar. “People are suspicious but there really are no hooks with community solar.”

LMI residents are leery to provide tax records or much documents at all in order to sign up for community solar, LaMora said. “We were surprised to see less of a default rate with LMI residents. We attribute this to the fact that they see significant savings on their electric bill, making it easier to pay each month,” he said.

 

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UK National Grid Commissions 2GW Substation

UK 2-GW Substation strengthens National Grid power transmission in Kent, enabling offshore wind integration, voltage regulation, and grid modernization to meet rising electricity demand and support the UK energy transition with resilient, reliable infrastructure.

 

Key Points

National Grid facility in Kent that steps voltage, regulates power, and connects offshore wind to strengthen UK grid.

✅ Adds 2 GW capacity to meet rising electricity demand

✅ Integrates offshore wind farms into transmission network

✅ Improves reliability, voltage control, and grid resilience

 

The United Kingdom has strengthened its national power grid with the commissioning of a major new 2-gigawatt capacity substation in Kent. This massive project, a key part of the National Grid's ongoing efforts to modernize and expand power transmission infrastructure, including plans to fast-track grid connections across critical projects, will play a critical role in supporting the UK's energy transition and growing electricity demands.


What is a Substation?

Substations are vital components of electricity grids. They serve as connection points, transforming high voltage electricity from power plants to lower voltages suitable for homes and businesses. They also help to regulate voltage levels, and, where appropriate, interface with expanding HVDC technology initiatives, ensuring stable electricity delivery.  Modern substations often act as hubs, supporting the integration of renewable power sources with the main electricity network.


Why This Substation Is Important

The new 2-gigawatt capacity substation is significant for several reasons:

  • Expanding Capacity: It adds significant capacity to the UK's grid, enabling the transmission of large amounts of electricity to where it's needed. This capacity boost is crucial for supporting growing electricity demand as the UK shifts its energy mix towards renewable sources.
  • Integrating Renewables: The substation will aid in integrating substantial amounts of offshore wind power, as projects like the Scotland-England subsea link illustrate, helping the UK achieve its ambitious clean energy goals. Offshore wind farms are a booming source of renewable energy in the UK, and ensuring reliable connections to the grid is essential in maximizing their potential.
  • Future-Proofing the Grid: The newly commissioned substation helps bolster the reliability and resilience of the UK's power transmission network, where reducing losses with superconducting cables could further enhance efficiency. It will play a key role in securing electricity supplies as older power plants are decommissioned and renewable energy sources become more dominant.


A Landmark Project

The commissioning of this substation is a major achievement for the National Grid, amid an independent operator transition underway in the sector, and UK energy infrastructure upgrades. The sheer scale of the project required extensive planning and collaboration with various stakeholders, underscoring the complexity of upgrading the nation's power grid to meet future needs.


The Path Towards a Cleaner Grid

The new substation is not an isolated project. It is part of a broader, multi-year effort by the National Grid to modernize and expand the country's power grid.  This entails building new transmission lines and urban conduits such as London's newest electricity tunnel now in service, investing in storage technologies, and adapting infrastructure to accommodate the shift towards distributed energy generation, where power is generated closer to the point of use.


Beyond Substations

While projects like the new 2-gigawatt substation are crucial, ensuring a successful energy transition requires more than just infrastructure upgrades. Continued support for renewable energy development, highlighted by recent offshore wind power milestones that demonstrate grid-readiness, investment in emerging energy storage solutions, and smart grid technology that leverages data for effective grid management are all important components of building a cleaner and more resilient energy future for the UK.

 

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Wind has become the ‘most-used’ source of renewable electricity generation in the US

U.S. Wind Generation surpassed hydroelectric output in 2019, EIA data shows, becoming the top renewable electricity source, driven by PTC incentives, expanded capacity, and utility-scale projects across states, boosting the national electricity mix.

 

Key Points

U.S. Wind Generation is the nation's top renewable, surpassing hydro as EIA-tracked capacity grows under PTC incentives.

✅ EIA: wind topped hydro in 2019, over 300M MWh generated

✅ PTC credits spurred growth in utility-scale wind projects

✅ 103 GW installed; 77% added in the last decade

 

Last year saw wind power surging in the U.S. to overtake hydroelectric generation for the first time, according to data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).

Released Wednesday, the figures from the EIA’s “Electric Power Monthly” report show that yearly wind generation hit a little over 300 million megawatt hours (MWh) in 2019. This was roughly 26 million MWh more than hydroelectric production.

Wind now represents the “most-used renewable electricity generation source” in the U.S., the EIA said, and renewables hit a 28% monthly record in April in later data.

Overall, total renewable electricity generation — which includes sources such as solar's 4.7% share in 2022 as one example, geothermal and landfill gas — at utility scale facilities hit more than 720 million MWh in 2019, compared to just under 707 million MWh in 2018. To put things in perspective, generation from coal came to more than 966 million MWh in 2019, while renewables surpassed coal in 2022 nationally according to later analyses.

According to the EIA’s “Today in Energy” briefing, which was also published Wednesday, generation from wind power has grown “steadily” across the last decade, and by 2020, renewables became the second-most prevalent source in the U.S. power mix.

This, it added, was partly down to the extension of the Production Tax Credit, or PTC, amid favorable government plans supporting solar and wind growth. According to the EIA, the PTC is a system which gives operators a tax credit per kilowatt hour of renewable electricity production. It applies for the first 10 years of a facility’s operation.

At the end of 2019, the country was home to 103 gigawatts (GW) of wind capacity, with 77% of this being installed in the last decade, and wind capacity surpassed hydro in 2016 according to industry data. The U.S. is home 80 GW of hydroelectric capacity, according to the EIA.

“The past decade saw a steady increase in wind capacity across the country and we capped the decade with a monumental achievement for the industry in reaching more than 100 GW,” Tom Kiernan, the American Wind Energy Association’s CEO, said in a statement issued Thursday.

“And more wind energy is coming, as the industry is well into investing $62 billion in new projects over the next few years that put us on the path to achieving 20 percent of the nation’s electricity mix in 2030,” Kiernan went on to state.

“As a result, wind is positioned to remain the largest renewable energy generator in the country for the foreseeable future.”

 

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Hydro once made up around half of Alberta's power capacity. Why does Alberta have so little now?

Alberta Hydropower Potential highlights renewable energy, dams, reservoirs, grid flexibility, contrasting wind and solar growth with limited investment, regulatory hurdles, river basin resources, and decarbonization pathways across Athabasca, Peace, and Slave River systems.

 

Key Points

It is the technical capacity for new hydro in Alberta's river basins to support a more reliable, lower carbon grid.

✅ 42,000 GWh per year developable hydro identified in studies.

✅ Major potential in Athabasca, Peace, and Slave River basins.

✅ Barriers include high capital costs, market design, water rights.

 

When you think about renewable energy sources on the Prairies, your mind may go to the wind farms in southern Alberta, or even the Travers Solar Project, southeast of Calgary.

Most of the conversation around renewable energy in the province is dominated by advancements in solar and wind power, amid Alberta's renewable energy surge that continues to attract attention. 

But what about Canada's main source of electricity — hydro power?

More than half of Canada's electricity is generated from hydro sources, with 632.2 terawatt-hours produced as of 2019. That makes it the fourth largest installed capacity of hydropower in the world. 

But in Alberta, it's a different story. 

Currently, hydro power contributes between three and five per cent of Alberta's energy mix, while fossil fuels make up about 89 per cent.

According to Canada's Energy Future report from the Canada Energy Regulator, by 2050 it will make up two per cent of the province's electricity generation shares.

So why is it that a province so rich in mountains and rivers has so little hydro power?


Hydro's history in Alberta
Hydro power didn't always make up such a small sliver of Alberta's electricity generation. Hydro installations began in the early 20th century as the province's population exploded. 

Grant Berg looks after engineering for hydro for TransAlta, Alberta's largest producer of hydro power with 17 facilities across the province.

"Our first plant was Horseshoe, which started in 1911 that we formed as Calgary Power," he said. 

"It was really in response to the City of Calgary growing and having some power needs."

Berg said in 1913, TransAlta's second installation, the Kananaskis Plant, started as Calgary continued to grow.

A historical photo of a hydro-electric dam in Kananaskis Alta. taken in 1914.
Hydro power plant in Kananaskis as seen in 1914. (Glenbow Archives)
Some bigger installations were built in the 1920s, including Ghost reservoir, but by mid-century population growth increased.

"Quite a large build out really, I think in response to the growth in Alberta following the war. So through the 1950s really quite a large build out of hydro from there."

By the 1950s, around half of the province's installed capacity was hydro power.

"Definitely Calgary power was all hydro until the 1950s," said Berg. 


Hydro potential in the province 
Despite the current low numbers in hydroelectricity, Alberta does have potential. 

According to a 2010 study, there is approximately 42,000 gigawatt-hours per year of remaining developable hydroelectric energy potential at identified sites. 

An average home in Alberta uses around 7,200 kilowatt-hours of electricity per year, meaning that the hydro potential could power 5.8 million homes each year. 

"This volume of energy could be sufficient to serve a significant amount of Alberta's load and therefore play a meaningful role in the decarbonization of the province's electric system," the Alberta Electric System Operator said in its 2022 Pathways to Net-Zero Emissions report.

Much of that potential lies in northern Alberta, in the Athabasca, Peace and Slave River basins.

The AESO report says that despite the large resource potential, Alberta's energy-only market framework has attracted limited investment in hydroelectric generation. 

Hydro power was once a big deal in Alberta, but investment in the industry has been in decline since the 1950s. Climate change reporter Christy Climenhaga explains why.
So why does Alberta leave out such a large resource potential on the path to net zero?

The government of Alberta responded to that question in a statement. 

"Hydro facilities, particularly large scale ones involving dams, are associated with high costs and logistical demands," said the Ministry of Affordability and Utilities. 

"Downstream water rights for other uses, such as irrigation, further complicate the development of hydro projects."

The ministry went on to say that wind and solar projects have increased far more rapidly because they can be developed at relatively lower cost and shorter timelines, and with fewer logistical demands.

"Sources from wind power and solar are increasingly more competitive," said Jean-Denis Charlebois, chief economist with the Canadian Energy Regulator. 


Hydro on the path to net zero
Hydro power is incredibly important to Canada's grid, and will remain so, despite growth in wind and solar power across the province.

Charlebois said that across Canada, the energy make-up will depend on the province. 

"Canadian provinces will generate electricity in very different ways from coast to coast. The major drivers are essentially geography," he said. 

Charlebois says that in British Columbia, Manitoba, Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador, hydropower generation will continue to make up the majority of the grid.

"In Alberta and Saskatchewan, we see a fair bit of potential for wind and solar expansion in the region, which is not necessarily the case on Canada's coastlines," he said.

And although hydro is renewable, it does bring its adverse effects to the environment — land use changes, changes in flow patterns, fish populations and ecosystems, which will have to be continually monitored. 

"You want to be able to manage downstream effects; make sure that you're doing all the proper things for the environment," said Ryan Braden, director of mining and hydro at TransAlta.

Braden said hydro power still has a part to play in Alberta, even with its smaller contributions to the future grid. 

"It's one of those things that, you know, the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine, this is here. The way we manage it, we can really support that supply and demand," he said.

 

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